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Towards Eden, an Enneagram Podcast
Welcome to Towards Eden Enneagram, a show where we dissect our Enneagram types so we can understand ourselves and have way better relationships.
The Enneagram is a tool that illuminates our motivations, our blind spots, and the differences between myself and others.
We can use it to see ourselves more clearly and to get healthier.
The Enneagram isn’t about what we do. It’s about WHY we do what we do.
Towards Eden, an Enneagram Podcast
#34 - Enneagram 101: What is an Enneagram 7? with Emily Edmundson
Today's episode with Enneagram 7 Emily Edmundson features not one, but TWO stories of cruise vacations!
Type 7 is known as “The Optimist." Sevens are fast thinkers with positive attitudes. They desire satisfaction and contentment in life; Emily shares how she's always trying to create fun experiences for her people.
We explored the Type 7 fears of being trapped in pain, limited, or bored, as well as what it's like for Emily to be in the head triad. Enjoy!
Emily Edmundson works as a clinical mental health counselor in Northwest Indiana.
Grab the Enneagram Guide for your type at work for $1! Enter code 'HIELYSE' at checkout.
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The Enneagram is a tool that illuminates our motivations, our blind spots, and the differences between ourselves and others. In this series, we explore the question, what is the Enneagram? That's the title of the first episode in this series. That episode gives an overview of the whole Enneagram system. So if you haven't listened to that, go check it out and then come back to this episode about type sevens. Here's the most important thing I want you to remember though. The Enneagram isn't about what we do. It's about why we do what we do. So let's get into an episode about what is an Enneagram type seven. Here is what Ian Kron and Suzanne Stabil say about sevens. Fun, spontaneous, and adventurous, they are motivated by a need to be happy, to plan stimulating experiences, and to avoid pain. Sevens are in the head triad, and they're driven by fear. They forget their fear and mentally go into the future to make more fun plans. As a head triad type, sevens take in and relate to the world through their minds. They tend to think and plan carefully before they act. And now it's time to learn all about sevens from my conversation with Emily Edmondson. Emily Edmondson. Hello. Hello. Different last name this time. That is the first time I've introduced you as Emily Edmondson. How fun. Emily, you just reminded me that it's been about one year since you were here in the studio recording another podcast with me. Crazy. It's been a quick year. A lot has happened in the year, too. A lot has happened. Can you tell us a little bit about what all has happened?
SPEAKER_00:A couple of things, a couple of small things. Got engaged, got married, changed my name. So busy year, but it's been an awesome year. Yeah, it's been a really fun year.
SPEAKER_01:Um I'm glad you're here to talk about Enneagram Seven. Thanks. This is part of a series called What is the Enneagram? So this is gonna be our episode all about sevens.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect, my favorite number. And of course, you're the perfect one to guide us through. Classic seven.
SPEAKER_01:So um there is an episode called An Enneagram Seven Learns to Feel All the Emotions. This is the one that Emily was a guest on um way early on in the podcast. So you can uh flip through to early episodes if you want to hear another episode with her. Um but Emily, please tell us where in the world are you and what do you do in life?
SPEAKER_00:Good questions. Um I live in Valparaiso, Indiana. I am a clinical mental health counselor there. Been about a two and a half years um working on my getting officially licensed, hopefully by next year. It's a process, but um yeah, so working on that. Just got married and um husband moved in in June. And so that's new. But yeah. Any other question? I have a dog. She's adorable. Tell us about your dog. Her name's Peggy, she's a burnadoodle. I bought her to um, well, because I love dogs and needed to take care of something, but also because I really wanted a therapy dog to take with me to um sessions. And so I bought her while I was in school and learned pretty quickly that she is not a therapy dog. She has terrible anxiety and um really needs to be calmed down herself. So she is now just a classic house pet. Excellent. No therapy um things in her future, but we still love her and she's adorable. We love Peggy. She is a nervous Nelly. She is a nervous Nelly, but she's getting better. Having a man move into the house has really pushed her out of comfort. Oh my goodness. It's taken some time, but she now loves him too. Excellent. Yeah. They're working on their relationship, but it's good. Good growth.
SPEAKER_01:Good growth. Yeah. Um, okay, I'm going to say some things about Enigram 7s. And then we're going to talk about it. I love it. Ennegram type 7, the optimist. The fears of type 7 are being trapped in pain or deprived, being limited or bored, missing out. Uh, the core desires of type 7 are to be fully satisfied and content to avoid pain and discomfort. And type 7s sit in the head triad. So along with fives and sixes, they lead with thinking, um, which means sevens are in their head thinking about things a lot before taking action or before feeling. Um so, Emily, please tell us how did you discover your type? And do you remember what it was about sevens that really hit you at the beginning?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh man, it was so long ago. Um, it's been a while for you. It's been a really long time. We it I can't even remember how. I think my sister introduced me to it. And when she introduced me to it, it was when everyone was taking the tests for it. Very trendy in culture. Yes, very trendy. And so she was a seven. I'm using you can't see, but air quotes for that. And um, so she was a seven, and she's like, take this. I'm so curious what it would be, you know. And then I ended up testing as a seven and reading it and thinking, oh, yes, this is definitely me. I think the thing that probably stuck out to me the most is I would call myself, like, even just the name, I'm an eternal optimist. It is very ever since I was a kid, it's really easy for me to find the good in pretty much anything. And I sit in that good. Like I don't like to look at the bad and I don't like to see the bad. And so um, that really stuck out to me. But then the more I learn about pain and avoidance of pain, and um, it just is right there and makes a lot of sense for me. But we um as a friend group with my sister and with our whole friend group, we were all kind of taking the the test and trying to figure out what we were. And then we all went through a season and we call it the Enea crisis, in that almost every single one of our friends changed their Enneagram from what the tests told they were to what they actually were. Uh-huh. So um, everyone else was, I mean, my sister is not a seven, she's actually an eight. Um, and then like another friend thought she was a two, but she's a nine. Another friend thought that she was a two and she was a five. You know, just everyone changed. And um, as they were having their Enia crisis, I was like, oh, I probably should look really into mine and make sure that I am a seven. And I read it, I read The Road Back to You, I read through all that, and I'm like, absolutely, I'm 100% a seven. There's no question. I was the one who was right from the beginning. I will take that badge.
unknown:Nice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But probably because I am just very classic seven. And I think sevens are pretty easy to spot.
SPEAKER_01:I think so too. There's Ian Kron said something one time about how sevens have like this brightness in their eyes, like a sparkle in their eyes. And I look at people's eyes now, like especially sevens, and I think I can start picking it out like sevens just have this bright, shiny, like it's like an optimism that you can see even in just the eyes.
SPEAKER_00:So I love that. That's kind of fun. I feel like I have, I mean, I even and I remember knowing this about reading this about sevens, and again, it hits so hard. It's like it's the only number that people actually like to be.
SPEAKER_01:That's tough for the rest of us.
SPEAKER_00:But I think it's it just like points to the seven of like optimism in that I will always find why I like something. And I like being a seven because I see all the good in it. You know, there's a lot of bad and there's a lot of pain and a lot of struggle and things that to work through. But with anything in life, like I will just enjoy it no matter what. And even if it's hard. And I actually have to, my the last um podcast we did was about intentionally sitting in the pain and intentionally sitting in the hard feelings, which I have learned a lot these last couple of years. But I love when I can just fly in the good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It's more fun that way. It's more fun that way. But yeah. And your sister Katie is actually our guest for type eight in the series. Yes. So if you guys want, if you guys love Emily and want to hear from her sister Katie, go listen to that episode next about any gram eights, because that is a really awesome conversation as well.
SPEAKER_00:She's the best eight. Yeah. She is, you'll learn a lot, and she's amazing, and um, she knows a lot. And she's an eight with a lot of empathy and love, which I think heals a lot of perspectives of eights.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well said.
unknown:Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:We are now going to go um go through. I'm gonna read through the desire and the fear again. And then I just want to hear from you. Like I'll read about the core desire, and then you tell me uh what maybe you if you can think of like a story that that shows how you experience that desire. Um that would be awesome. Um so again, type sevens, they have this core desire about uh wanting to be fully satisfied, fully content, and avoiding the pain and discomfort. So what's that like for you to have this radar that's always always trying to make sure that you're satisfied and content?
SPEAKER_00:I think the easiest way, it's in so many aspects of life, but probably the most classic way is even through food or through um just not I it's always I'm always afraid of not having enough. So say I'm I had a job before this where I was hosting a lot of parties and hosting a lot of people or events. And I was always hyperfixated on is there enough food? Is there enough things? Is there and so I would have always buy way too much, or I would always buy an excess of things because my biggest, I was like, even in that sense, I was like, I do not want to run out. I don't want people to not have enough. I don't, I don't want to have enough. And so I know other people don't want to have enough. And so um, even in planning for something, I often have to check myself of like, okay, do I really need, you know, I'm going on a vacation for three days. Do I really need seven pairs of pants? No. Like I could probably cut it back to five. Um I find myself having to like cut back and really check myself of, okay, is am I looking for excess? Am I afraid that I'm not gonna have enough? And I have to remind myself, even if I don't have enough, we can always solve that problem in different ways. But um, that is a very like logical way to look at it of even when planning, I plan for too much almost always.
SPEAKER_01:That's a really good example. Um, I so the episode right before this one is about Enneagram Sixes with my friend Crystal. And she kind of talked about some similar things about wanting to plan and be really prepared for events, right? Like, for example, she tells a story about um going on this hike at the dunes with her friend, and she um like had a whole backpack full of things that she didn't really need, but she wanted to make sure that she was prepared. And I want to hear what you think about what would be like the difference in motivation between a six and a seven, because you could see the same behavior on the outside where a six and a seven are both like overpacking or like packing a lot of things for a trip. But what's the difference in the motive?
SPEAKER_00:I think my motive is maybe more experiential than about having the stuff. It's more of I don't want my experience to be bad. And so if I don't have enough food, it's gonna ruin the experience. If I don't have enough like clothes for or if I don't have the outfit that I want on a specific day, it's gonna ruin the experience. And so I think part of being a seven, at least this is me, I don't know if anybody else is like this, but with being in the head triad and with being um pretty, I think we can think a lot. And so we're actually pretty good at um thinking on our feet or solving problems or um pivoting. Yeah, pivoting. We're really good at that, I think. And so like going on a hike, the experience is the hike. And so I actually am not prepared on hikes at all. Okay. I rarely bring what I need. And it's not that, you know, I can usually pivot and like I'll find water or I'll find something, but it's usually the experience of the hike that I love. And so that I'm not gonna lose out on the experience because the experience is the hike. Where like a party is the experience is the food, or it's the feel, or it's the fun we're having together. The fun we're having. And so like I don't want me or anybody else to lose out on the the fun or the experience or get that get in the way of the party.
SPEAKER_01:Really good, really good examples. I like that. Um do you find Do you find that this um affects your calendar and your scheduling? Like, do you do you um do you try to over over I don't know how to say this? Like, do you try to overplan things so you have enough like experiences to look forward to?
SPEAKER_00:Um I definitely think I used to. Um probably in my twenties. I did a lot of soul work to where I am okay with being bored now. I'm okay with not having things to do, more okay. Um, I'm more okay with experiences being off. But I think in my 20s, I definitely, if I didn't have plans for a night, it was like, what am I doing? I have to do something. What can I do? What fun can I experience? Instead, I'm texting people of like, what can we do tonight? Where now I'm okay with the night in and I'm okay with not doing much. Um so I think it definitely used to like hit my calendar. I think now I feel it more in bigger experiences. Like I really want if I if I don't have a trip planned for a while, or if I don't have anything to look forward to. I think I feel that gap.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And again, I've I'm trying to learn how to be okay with the gap, like okay with the discomfort, okay without having anything to look forward to. But I really do like to look forward to things or have, you know, like the anticipation towards things. I really like that. And I think that's a big part of the experience. And so that being, I don't like surprises because it ruins the experience for me. Oh, why? Because there's no anticipation. There's no anticipation. I think like being excited for a party. Maybe this is a good example. I don't know if this is me or Sevens. I don't even know if some anyone will relate to this, but um, my engagement, there was zero surprise in it. I knew the exact day it was happening. I knew what I didn't know what we were doing. Like I didn't know how he was gonna do it. But literally when I saw him that day, it was happy engagement day and like the whole day, but it made the whole day so special. It like really increased the experience of the day because um I knew it was happening. And I was like, I got to just slow down and I got to just like be in the moment and not be like, oh my gosh, is this it? Is he gonna do it now? Is this what's happening? You know, I didn't have to like question or pretend that I didn't know. Yeah, your anxiety wasn't triggered. No, no anxiety. It was just like, oh, like, I'm so excited for this day. Like this is gonna be so beautiful, and I don't have to pretend. I because I also don't like, I don't want to pretend that I don't know something's happening. Sure. I want to be fully in a moment, fully authentic. And so I didn't have to pretend. I didn't have to um yeah, like be nervous. And I loved that day. It was so special. And that's awesome. Um, but I think that the anticipation and getting excited for something is a really big part of the experience in general, too.
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Powell Yeah, that's a really good way to put it. Like it's not just the experience itself, it's the planning and the anticipating and the talking about it with the people who are involved and getting ready and all the things. Definitely. So let's move on to talk about the fears of sevens. It's so much fun to talk about the fears of sevens, right? Talking about the heart. So the fears are being trapped, trapped in pain, being deprived, limited or bored, missing out.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Which one of those do you want to talk about? A lot of good stuff.
SPEAKER_00:A lot of good stuff. We could hit all of them because they're all so relevant to me. I think the one that sticks out the most that I struggle with the most is the um trapped in pain. Okay. Where I don't like pain at all. Um, specifically physically, I really don't like pain. Um, you know, I um have a very low pain tolerance. But what's funny is growing up, because I'm kind of hard-headed a little bit, not even hard-headed, like I just I don't want people to see me as weak. And so growing up, I think I would always say I had a high pain tolerance because I do think that in my head, being part of the head triad, like I think in my head, I can handle a lot of stuff. Like I can like, I can, I guess, rationalize pain or I can rationalize things, or I can put keep it in my head without actually feeling things. And so even with physical pain, I think I could like put it in my head and get through it. But then the older I got and the more, you know, self-aware I became, I'm like realizing I have actually really low pain tolerance and I don't like interesting and I don't want to deal with it and I don't want to feel it. And so physically I found I can avoid it pretty decently well. But with that, I can handle a lot of emotional pain pretty well. And I think that's because of my I am in a head triad. And so I don't feel trapped in emotional pain anymore, but I used to a lot. What's changed? Um, a lot of self-reflection and a lot of um in my last podcast, I talked about my year of pain in a sense. I called it my year of winter, and it was a whole year of feeling my feelings, feeling sad, feeling disappointed, feeling discouraged, and allowing myself to feel it to where I cried almost every day. And um it was kind of an exposure therapy, a little bit of feeling a lot of pain and a lot of um sadness without being trapped. Even in the year, I knew it was my year of pain, but I didn't only experience pain that year. I experienced a lot of other things too joy, excitement, um things like that. But there was just a lot more pain than normal. And I think I learned experiencing that that I'm it's I'm never trapped in it. I can always get out of it.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely go back and listen to Emily's other episode. Um, or it's a really good one for for other sevens, you know, because this not wanting to be trapped. This is such a real fear for sevens, and it's hard to understand how to get around that. Or how do I, how do I like allow myself to feel a little bit of sadness without getting trapped there? Or like I want to be able to feel a little bit of disappointment without getting stuck. So yeah, Emily did a really good job of explaining how she has learned and grown and continued to trust God through um that year of winter experience. Yeah. Um okay, what about what about uh being limited? Limited, uh your options being limited. What's that like?
SPEAKER_00:I it's one of those things I've learned to be more okay with. And I have to tell myself this all the time where it's okay to be uncomfortable. Even feeling uncomfortable, I don't like it. It feels it can be I can convince myself that I'm trapped in it, but teaching myself like, nope, you're not you're uncomfortable and it's not gonna last forever. And actually, discomfort leads to a lot of growth. Um speaking of that, it reminded me of um a couple years ago. Actually, this was at the beginning. No, well, it was um before my year of pain, but I went through something really difficult and I was talking to a mentor, and um we were talking about discomfort, and I was kind of like, oh, that's just so uncomfortable. Like, I don't want to do that. And she told me, and I've like clung to it since then, of um, you can't God calls us to be courageous in the Bible, and it says be strong and courageous. And um, she was like, you can't be courageous and comfortable at the same time. Oh my. And so she was kind of like, we get called to be uncomfortable. And in that discomfort, we can be courageous and we can be brave and we can get through it. And so actually, the discomfort isn't a bad thing, it doesn't have to be bad. And so, and it doesn't last forever. I have to tell myself that a lot too, um, especially with being trapped. And so being limited feels uncomfortable. And I love the idea of unlimited anything. But in my experience, I've found that actually unlimited diminishes the experience a little bit. Where all you can eat buffets, you know, you eat and eat and eat and eat, and then you feel really sick afterwards. Or like if I don't like the idea of like, oh, I'm limited to just one coffee a day. But then if I have so many coffees, I actually get sick. Oh, yeah. You know, I don't feel that great, you know. And so too much of anything is bad. And so like just reminding myself of that, of I want to just have things in excess and have things unlimited, but in the limited is where you're gonna have the fuller experience, I think sometimes. Yeah. That's definitely a lesson I had to learn because I I even remember thinking like as a kid, oh, I can't wait until I can just do this whenever I want or as much as I want. Or you know, even like have fast food. Like I just want to fast food as much as I want. And now I'm like, ah, see that's makes you sick.
SPEAKER_01:It's not as good as I thought it would be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's not as freeing as I thought it would be. And so I'm learning in the discipline and in the limited, is where growth happens, but then the the fullest experience happens. But that's definitely not a natural thought or process.
SPEAKER_01:That's really good. And yeah, one thing that you and I have just talked about in our our friendship a lot is is about how uh about how, yeah, God gives us options in life. Um, but God also like doesn't permit us to do literally anything we want. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of wisdom in that of like understanding understanding like the limits that God gives us to live a full human experience while also knowing that God isn't trying to dictate our every small little action.
SPEAKER_00:And he like gives us a lot of freedom with what we choose to do in life. Definitely. And there's so much freedom and discipline, which you would never have found me saying that a year, 10 years ago. But in the discipline is where we can find like even working out, where if you work out, yeah, it sucks and it's hard, and I don't want to do it most of the time. But in that, I feel stronger. I feel like I can do more, I feel like I can it I am more free doing that than not, even though it's uncomfortable for a time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. I I also like how you are talking about being courageous and how that translates for you as um being willing to engage in pain and like being willing to engage in uncomfortable experiences. And I I think probably that is gonna look different for different Enneagram numbers. Like, what does being courageous mean? Because there's some Enneagram numbers that actually like don't mind pain or are okay with like engaging in in the hard things right away. But maybe for a different number, like being being courageous looks like being vulnerable, or being courageous looks like being willing to fail, you know. So I I like I like how you how you brought that up for for sevens, what courageous looks like. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks. Me and uh my husband's a three, and um we kind of joke a lot where I because I'm a therapist, I can sit with a lot of, especially other people's discomfort, uncomfortable emotions. Um and being in the head triad, I can keep the uncomfortable or sad emotions up in my head to where I don't actually feel them myself. I just think through them and help my clients process through them. But I can handle a lot, because of that, I can handle a lot of emotional pain, um, specifically other people's, but I can handle that and I have very little tolerance for physical pain. And he's the complete opposite. He can handle a ton of physical pain. He has really high pain tolerance, but does not do well with emotional pain. That's so funny. And so I'm sure that has something to do with how we're wired, and he's in the heart triad, and so that's harder for him, you know. But um that is being in the head triad has helped me be able to even compartmentalize a little bit other people's emotional pain. But it's gotten me in trouble because then I compartmentalize my own emotional pain, and that's where I avoid it. And so I have to intentionally sit with my own emotional pain and not compartmentalize it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's good. You did really a brilliant job shifting into talking about the head triad because that was the next thing we were gonna talk about. Um yeah. Anything else you want to say about what it's like to to be in the head triad and to think first before the feeling or the action.
SPEAKER_00:I think that the head triad has helped me solidify my seven Enneagram number more than anything else because I am 100% a thinker first, which surprises I think a lot of people because I think sevens come across really emotional. Expressive. Expressive. Yeah. We feel but we express usually the good emotions or the easy ones. Um and but we are thinkers through and through. And so one way that this has come up emotionally specifically for me is that I don't feel emotions first. I have to think through the emotion. And if the emotion doesn't make sense, in some ways I reject it, and I'm like, oh no, that doesn't make sense. Like I shouldn't feel that way. And so then I push it away. And when really emotions don't make sense and they don't always have to make sense, you know. So then I have to fight my thinking of, oh, I have to feel the sadness even though it doesn't make sense. And um there's that I have to allow the emotion to sink into my heart rather than it just some people are just feelers and they feel immediately and you can tell what they're feeling and they express it where I have to intentionally express emotion.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it feels like it kind of goes against your logic.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think that it it could be helpful for like Emily um has shared before that that sh she kind of like compartmentalizes to make a time to feel emotions, like let me feel my emotions while I'm in the car or something, right? So perhaps that could be a helpful advice for other people who like want to practice feeling emotions, but it feels hard. Like it's okay to to segment it, like to make a space that is separate from your thinking life or separate from other things to kind of give you the freedom to feel for a little bit and then come back to real life.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, if it's better to feel it than to completely push it away forever. It's find that safe space and hopefully you get to a place where you can share emotion with people and feel a little more safer for that. But for me, it took a lot of alone feeling to even get comfortable enough to share it with other people.
SPEAKER_01:Um let's talk about relationships. What are some of your top values in your relationships?
SPEAKER_00:Ooh, relationships are the most important thing in my life, besides Jesus. But my relationship With Jesus is number one. But after that, it is with people. I like, I mean, I feel like I'm a broken record and it's a lot about this, but shared experiences are really important to me. Um, I've talked about experiences a lot this podcast, but um, if I can share experiences with people, then that helps me love, like just feel closer to them. Um actually, when I was dating my now husband at first, this was a learning curve for us because our shared experiences looked different. Where, or like quality time is probably another way to say it, but um, our quality time looked different. Where for me, I wanted to go out and do. I wanted to go to a theme park, or I wanted to go and go for a hike or go do these things and with him, and that was really meaningful to me. But for him, quality time was sitting and talking and just being together, eating a meal, or it looked really different. And so we could go to a theme park all day, be together all day, and I'm like so satisfied. I'm like, that's the best day ever, feel so close to you, all this stuff. And he's like, we didn't even talk all day. Like we did not have quality time at all. And I'm like, oh, okay, that looks really different. So um we learned that where he's like, oh, if you really want to feel loved and connected, we need to go do something fun together. And I was like, Yeah, that's really important to me. I like the talking, I like the deep conversations, but that's not where I think I go to for connecting with people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it sounds like you you like having the fun, vibrant experiences, but also inviting other people into that. So you're all sharing like a really amazing experience together.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah. And that's where I feel. And that's where like even when I turned 30, at least came on my 30th birthday cruise. Birthday cruise. Birthday cruise, which is so fun. But like those are those experiences are so important to me. It's like when people can come on those trips and be together and experience those times together. I just it's so it helps us get really close. Yeah. And so memorable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like you might remember a big experience more than you remember like the the night chatting on the couch. Although that's important too.
SPEAKER_00:It is, yes. Those are very important. But for me, I gravitate towards the experiences.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, what are a couple more values you can think of important in your relationships?
SPEAKER_00:Um emotional safety. Oh, interesting. And it takes a long time for me to get there with people. Um I know how to I don't know if this is from seven or if this is from just a different personality in my, but I know how to read people pretty well in like emotional safety to where if they if I if I don't feel comfortable sharing the hard stuff or sharing the real things, I can keep it light really easily. And those are the people, and those are fine friendships, but those aren't the ones that I'm going to gravitate towards or I'm going to find time to be with. So, an example in my 20s, I had a lot of friends, um, and they were very, they weren't very emotionally safe friends, but they were really fun friends. Sure. And so we had a lot of fun experiences, a lot of fun, a lot of, um, did a lot of things all the time, a lot of game nights, all those things. But when it came down to emotional safety, it I got really hurt by something. And after that, I gravitated towards my emotionally safe friends. And I find that those friendships meant so much more to me and taught me more and made me feel more safe. And so now it's emotional safety is so important to me because I can have shared experiences, I can have fun, I can have, you know, I can do fun things with pretty much anybody, but I can't open up or share or have deep conversations with everybody and feel safe. And so that's also very important.
SPEAKER_01:That's really good. Yeah. You had people who could have a big fat check mark uh next to the first box, shared fun experiences, but that doesn't just automatically translate to being an emotionally safe friend. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, definitely. Good. Do you have one more? Um I really enjoy. So this will go to the head triad, I guess, then the experiences, the emotion. But then if we can have a good conversation about something that we're not and again, in this an emotionally safe place to where I can share what I'm thinking or wrestling with or questioning or struggling with and not feel judged or um not feel like someone's gonna shut me down, right? So they're gonna try to understand where I'm coming from or try to understand the tension that I feel without saying, you know, like what you're not allowed to do that. Like you can't question that. You can't think that way, you know, where then it we can get into a deep headspace of, okay, but what does this mean? Why are we doing that? Why, why do we do this as Christian? Why do we just assume this and you know, I'm able to wrestle with some of the logic in it? Great. Really good. Three great values.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, let's talk about the nit the nicknames of any gram seven. Which one do you like the most? Oh, okay. Uh the optimist, the enthusiast, the epicure, the entertainer, the adventurer.
SPEAKER_00:Probably the optimist. I think that's my favorite one. That probably describes me the most, but the other ones are also accurate. Yeah. I would say I'm less of a- I mean, I can entertain and I love to tell a good story, but that's not something that I lean towards. Aaron Powell The Optimist feels the closest to your identity. Yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna read from the book The Roan Back to You by Ian Cron. Um I know you've read this book, we've talked about it. And he's got a list of 20 things, what it's like to be a type seven. So I'm gonna read a few of those and then you could just respond. Like, do you relate to these? Do you not? Cool. Do any of these punch you in the gut? What it's like to be a type seven. I'm always the first person up for a last-minute adventure.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:I am an optimist to a fault. Yeah, I already said that. We've been there, didn't it? Been there, yes. I don't like making hard and fast commitments to things. Oof. That feels real.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I um this actually goes back to my relationship with my husband, where um one of our biggest fights was that um he wanted me to commit to something without me fully understanding it. And it was, it was all hypotheticals, but it was like, what if this happened? Would you choose me? type of thing. Okay. And in my mind, he wanted me to just emotionally be like, absolutely, like I would choose you over anything. But I could not commit to it because I didn't have all the information. Yeah. I'm like, why would that happen? What's the context? What's the context of that? Well, that would never happen. I would never have to choose because we would make it work. You know, I was like, I would go into my head and he got so hurt by that because for him, he's like, I would choose you over anything. And I was like, Yes, I would choose you over anything, but there's gonna be very few situations where I will actually have to do that. Yeah. You know, and so it would when we we had to like, it took so long, but and he was actually the one who realized it and it clicked for him. And he had to explain it to me. And he's like, I think this is what's happening. And I was like, that's exactly what's happening, is you want me to emotionally commit to something that I'm not logically ready to commit to. Yeah. And so if it doesn't make sense to me, I'm not gonna commit to it. Even if I absolutely 100% love that person or that thing or whatever, I'm like, it has to make sense to me. And so you need to explain.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. If it's all hypothetical, it it can't really make sense because you the the details don't exist. The details don't exist, and I hate hypotheticals. Okay, next. Oh, we already talked about this. Anticipation is the best part of life. It is the best part of life. It's such a big part of the experience, and I love it. Yes, seven's playing their next vacation while they're on their current vacation.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Someone one time, I had a me and my sister were on a cruise. I love cruises if you can't tell, but um, we're on a vacation and we had a picture. I post a picture with me and her, and I'm like, this is so much fun, I can't wait for our next one. And someone made fun of me so hard for that. And I was like, what do you mean? And I also have to catch myself. So I've done a lot of traveling, and when I'm traveling, I have to catch myself because I can get really down if I think this is my only time I'll ever experience this. So I was in New Zealand. I could maybe say now, I may never go to New Zealand ever again. But when I was in New Zealand, I had to tell myself, we could come here again, we could experience this again. Because if that, I would be so sad. Like I would, I just I think that limiting or the I didn't want to be limited to the one time where everyone else is with. I was like, this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. And I'm like, don't tell me that. I can't look at this as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity because I need the option. Oh. It may never happen again, but I need the option of it to happen again. So I have to catch myself a lot on travels. Nice.
SPEAKER_01:Uh okay, next. People close to me say I can be argumentative and act superior.
SPEAKER_00:Um I don't know about that. I would maybe maybe my husband gets the most of that. Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Uh next. Variety and spontaneity are the spice of life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I agree with that.
SPEAKER_01:Uh next. Sometimes I get so eager. Uh sometimes I get so eager for the future, I can hardly wait for it to get here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think that my year of winter was that's my natural tendency of I just can't wait for it to get here and it's hard for me to be in the moment. Um, my year of winter grounded me a lot in that and um taught me a lot. And so I'm learning more to savor life now and not get too excited about it and to love the season I'm in now rather than always anticipate the next.
SPEAKER_01:It's hard for me to finish things. When I get close to the end of a project, I start thinking about the next thing, and then I get so excited I sometimes just move on.
SPEAKER_00:Um, that might be my husband's least favorite thing about me. Oh he loves to finish projects. And usually by the time we're at 90%, I'm like, I gotta be done. I can't do it. Let's go to the next thing. Yeah. Like, I can't do this. And he's like, no. Any examples? Um, I just paint, we just painted a room um in the house, and I so badly just wanted to be done. Like, like not move everything back in, or you know, it was just like there was just a little bit left, and he's like, we have to finish this today. And I'm like, I just really don't want to.
SPEAKER_01:It's like the tedious final 10%.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And I just I don't like that part. And I'm already on to the next thing. And um, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh when people I care about are having a hard time, I help them look at the bright side of the situation.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. I think that my job forces me to sit with them and not do that. Because actually it can be more damaging than helpful. And I know that. Um probably now instead of saying the little things like, oh, it'll get better, or oh, well, look at the, you know, to minimize or invalidate their emotions, I try to remind them that it won't last forever. Because that's something I actually tell myself that a lot with painful emotions. But that's kind of my way of trying to help them validate their emotions while also helping them. Yeah, without just like dismissing it or trying to okay.
SPEAKER_01:A couple more. Almost everything can be more fun and entertaining with a little effort.
SPEAKER_00:100%.
SPEAKER_01:It's a funny one. That's a funny one, but also Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think it could.
SPEAKER_01:Just put in a little effort.
SPEAKER_00:We can make it more fun. Yeah. It's like, oh, you want to do this? This will make even better.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. I think people worry more than they should. Oh, yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. And I'm I'm convinced with an optimistic perspective, less bad things happen. And I can't tell if it's because actually less thing bad things happen, or I just don't think about them or I don't let them get to me. I don't know. It's like I haven't nailed that down necessarily, but um like like the less you worry, the less bad things are actually gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01:And if you worry more, then maybe more bad things are actually gonna happen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Or you pay attention to the bad things that are happening. Yeah, that too. So where it's like, or you know, someone, something will just like debilitate someone. And it is a bad thing, but I'm like, or they'll worry about it and then it does happen, but I'm like, let's pivot. Let's just do something else, or let's, you know, let's just not worry about it and let's just move on or do something, you know. And again, I have to catch myself because I don't want to invalidate any hardships, but I do think that it just is either I don't pay attention to the bad things or less bad things happen. I don't know. Excuse me. Don't quote me on that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, last one. Life is better than people imagine. It's all about how you explain things to yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Hmm. I think there's an unhealthy version of that. Um but I do think that, you know, there's two sides of the spectrum, optimists and pessimists. And I think that there's damage if we go too far on either side. And so a lot of times, again, as a therapist, I'm helping people see the good. But I also know that if we only pay attention to the good and not the bad, then we're either invalidating or we're not fixing things or not helping things. Yeah. And so I think a good balance is important.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent. Well said. A good balance is important. Emily Edmondson, thank you for coming. Thanks for inviting me. Of course. Is there anything else that you want people to know about any Gram Sevens before we close it out?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think that the stereotype is that sevens are flighty, surface level, um, and don't like emotion, which I think all those things can be true. But like any number, we can grow and we can be aware and we can make that happen less. And so I would say all of those things are true naturally for me, but I've worked really hard to not make them true in my life. And so just stereotypes are there for a reason, and I get that, but maybe not all sevens are like that.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for guiding us through any gram sevens. Thanks for asking me. It was so fun. That was great. I'm sure that is not the last we'll hear of you.
SPEAKER_00:Please invite me back. I would love it.
SPEAKER_01:And that's it for today, over and out.
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