Towards Eden, an Enneagram Podcast
Welcome to Towards Eden Enneagram, a show where we dissect our Enneagram types so we can understand ourselves and have way better relationships.
The Enneagram is a tool that illuminates our motivations, our blind spots, and the differences between myself and others.
We can use it to see ourselves more clearly and to get healthier.
The Enneagram isn’t about what we do. It’s about WHY we do what we do.
Towards Eden, an Enneagram Podcast
#37 - Family Cultures Through The Enneagram with Christa Hardin of "Enneagram and Marriage"
Christa Hardin is the creator of the popular Enneagram and Marriage podcast and Instagram account. She joins me to talk about couple pairings & family dynamics with the Enneagram.
How do the parents' Enneagram types affect the family? What sort of 'family cultures' develop as a result of the Enneagram types in a family? Christa gives examples of various type pairings & family dynamics.
Check out the Glow Guides, Christa Hardin's comprehensive couple guides that help your specific pairing see your light and shadows.
She also wrote the book The Enneagram in Your Marriage.
-------
Christa Hardin is the host of the popular Enneagram and Marriage Podcast and in addition to podcasting and writing books, she runs the Enneagram and Marriage Instagram and runs her counseling practice, Reflections Counseling Center in Lakewood Ranch, Florida. For fun, she co-creates mystery dinner games with her husband. Most of all, she loves spending time with her family. Christa earned a Master of Arts degree specializing in Clinical Psychology from Wheaton College in Illinois and also has a degree in Communications. She is married with three children. Her Enneagram and Marriage website is www.EnneagramandMarriage.com and her team's local coaching website website is www.ReflectionsCC.com
Grab the Enneagram Guide for your type at work for $1! Enter code 'HIELYSE' at checkout.
______________________________________________________________
Get my free Guide to the 9 Enneagram Types 🌱
This guide is a great quick-reference to help you remember the types.
Towards Eden Enneagram Instagram 🌿
Towards Eden Enneagram Website 🌿
For more resource recommendations, click here.
Today's guest is Krista Harden. Krista is the host of the Popular Ennegram and Marriage podcast. In addition to podcasting and writing books, she runs the Enneagram and Marriage Instagram account and she runs a counseling practice reflections counseling center in Lakewood Ranch, Florida. For fun, Krista co-creates mystery dinner games with her husband. Most of all, she loves spending time with her family. Krista earned a Master of Arts degree specializing in clinical psychology from Wheaton College in Illinois, and she also has a degree in communications. Her website is EnigramandMarriage.com. Krista wrote a great book titled The Enigram in Marriage. I personally know Krista because I've trained with her. She hosts a coach's training to train coaches in how to help people with their marriages in the Ennegram. So I've gone through Krista's training program and she is one of the experts about Ennegram with marriage. So I'm just really thrilled that she took the time to come be on this podcast, and I'm excited for you guys to hear more from her. Krista Harden is here. I am so happy to have you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with you. Thank you, Elise.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I have a quick story. Um, because I'm just like really excited about this. Four years ago, I was listening to your podcast while I was driving a load of donations to the thrift shop during an organizing job. Um, and I listened to a lot of your podcast episodes, and then I remember all of a sudden you started announcing that you were gonna start a coach's training program. And I was like, okay, I really like her. I really like this topic. I need to be in that program. And so fast forward four years, and I've trained with you and um had a lot of coaching calls together. And now you're on my podcast, and that feels like so exciting.
SPEAKER_00:It's so surreal for both of us. You are already a beautiful coach in your own right, but just watching you develop over the last four years has been incredibly satisfying as a coach and just really proud of you, but also just alongside of you. You have gifts I don't have. It's awesome to have you out there doing this work and this pod.
SPEAKER_01:I really appreciate that. And yeah, you your um words of encouragement mean a lot to me. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh, I'm so glad it's worth it for the emotional deep dive. You're amazing.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, this topic I'm really excited about family dynamics in the Enneagram. So today we're gonna talk about pairings, we're gonna talk about family cultures. And Krista, I am I think you're the perfect person to have some of these conversations with because you have a lot of experience with working with couples, and you've worked with people of so many different Enneagram types, and you have a lot of um just varied experience. And so I I want to give you a moment to just introduce the glow guides because this is a really awesome resource that um you've created to help couples.
SPEAKER_00:So every pairing has its light and shadow. If you know the Enneagram, which you probably do as a listener, you know that you have certain gifts and traits. And it's hard to parse those out when you're in the middle of a conflict together in your relationship, especially after a few years and past the honeymoon stage. So my glow guides help you to see how you shine individually and together. But I also take you through areas of conflict, how you can get through those date night tips. I give you uh examples of how your instincts might play out, your self-prege, your sexual, your social. And I help you guys to even connect sexually together. There are so many different ways to serve together, to love together, to do conflict healthier. And that's what my glow guides are all about for each and every one of the 45 pairings.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Another thing I love about the glow guides is they have a little nickname. So each pairing of two types has their nickname of what describes their couple. It's super fun. Um, and I recommend these a lot to couples because they're fun and they're practical, and we love something that's fun and practical.
unknown:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:I'm so glad. Thank you for recommending them to couples because we need the fun, you're right, but then we need the actual work too.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely. And you kind of already answered partially my next question about just why is it important to understand different pairing combinations? Why is it important for us to understand the unique glow that like me and my husband's number would have as opposed to somebody else's pairing?
SPEAKER_00:I think that we can get very lost with looking at what other people are doing. I hear from couples all the time. Even just yesterday, I was doing a Sunday session and they said, Hey, we really have needed to catch up with you forever because it's like they live in a different time zone. So we found this time that worked. Uh, and they were basically just saying, without giving their story, we're looking at couples all around us and they seem to be thriving and doing better. But then we had to look at what they are doing good and what is their pairing bring that those other couples don't have. So our glow guides or just even knowing the best of our pairings help us to be able to say, although we have these weaknesses and shadows, we also bring a really unique light that a lot of couples don't bring. And some of us are like, oh yeah, we're so fast paced together. We get so much done. Or some of them are like, we have the best friend chemistry. We can get along as friends all the time. Maybe passion's a little harder. And then that next couple over has the exact opposite work to do. So it's really helpful to know, yes, we do have a light, even though we have some shadows.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's great. Um, my husband and I, I'm a type one and he's a type three. So, you know, one of our blind spots is uh considering our emotions when we're dealing with like hard situations. Like that's kind of hard for for both of us in different ways. But then something we're really good at is like um setting a project goal and then accomplishing a project together. So it's just, you know, every pairing has things um that they're gonna be better at and have to work at. Um and I I want to talk about one step further how these couple pairings can affect the rest of the family. So I am like so fascinated by this idea of a family culture. Okay. So like a lot of indie grown teachers will say that a country is like a type six country or a type three country. And I think we can see those kinds of patterns with families also. Like maybe it's a a family with a very type three personality where everybody in the family isn't threes, but yet they all kind of have this like three overlay to their own type, because maybe the there's kind of something brought by the parent. Um so I just want to ask you what kind of patterns, it's a broad question, but what kind of patterns have you noticed in all your years of working with couples when it comes to the parent's pairing affecting the rest of the family?
SPEAKER_00:Hmm, this is such a rich, deep question. I just want to first say awesome job on the question because it is so important and so underdiscussed. But basically, I see a lot of couples who enter the space of their parents' types and work from there. For instance, if you had a type one parent, and I know you yourself are a one, uh, there's a lot of causality, which we could never determine on a scientific scale, but just from what I see with my work on a more basic level when we're conversing, it's very obvious when someone came from a top type one household that they are more rule-based, that they want to focus in on the right things, even if they're not a one. And that happens, whatever your type is from your family of origin. If it's not a direct following, however, it can be the exact opposite. I see this with a lot of type twos where their type two parent, who is more of a nurture giver in every capacity, often the next generation says, we're tired of giving. We've been giving our whole childhoods, and we want to grow up and have a little time for indulgence ourselves. So I both see the following pattern of type or subtype, which we may want to talk about. And then I also see people who, when it wasn't done with balance, often rebel against whatever they had growing up. And so I've seen it myself too, where I have certain overlays from my family. And then sometimes I don't want to be part of that anymore. So I try my best to escape it.
SPEAKER_01:Uh-huh. If you are open to sharing about this, would you say that when you look at your own family, there were any numbers that dominated your family culture, family origin?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would say that as a group of mom and siblings, there's a very strong heart type over my family. And it overwhelmed me as a thinking type, but not only heart type, it was a sexual heart type. So where everyone is passionate about giving and overgives and then gets taken advantage of, and in the most crazy ways. So I see that, and I even see it in my own tendencies where I'm like, oh, I shouldn't say anything. I should be loving, I should be Christ-like. And then I have to be like, no, you're a thinking type. You have a warning sign going off in your brain. Listen to that too, so that you don't get caught up in the giving. But then what can happen to me is I'll go so far away from that into my logical self-preserving brain that my family can start to feel like I'm trying to be better than them or distance myself from them and it hurts. And they tell me about it and they act uh very two-ish and a bad way, sort of sometimes where they won't say it, but you can feel it. And so I've had to really look at both them and myself and say, how can I love them no matter what, even if they're making choices I would never want for them to make? Let's say they're in a very codependent space. Um, how can I just love them versus judging them, distancing? Um, and how can I still set some boundaries, but not too many boundaries? That's been my work to do. And I I'm really glad I've stepped into that middle territory because it's better not to try to project all my things over to what I think they should be doing. But it's also been great not to just let them totally envelope me with all of their needs, which Wes and I did early in our marriage. And then we suffered because we were always trying to help them and we could never really catch a breath for ourselves. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:And as I know that your husband is a type one, so I can imagine that he probably had a very duty mindset of like, this is the good thing, we need to help. And so you guys probably collabed on that early on.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and we helped to the extreme, and then we would burn out me more than him because he has the type one oak tree kind of energy to keep going forever in that positioning, even if he gets mad now in a time again. But for me, I would burn out, and then he would burn out too, but he wouldn't know why he was burning out. He would just be mad, but he wouldn't know like this is too much. He would just be like, Oh, I'm just frustrated because you're not doing it perfectly. And I'd be like, I can't do it perfectly because there's way too much more than any one person could ever handle.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely well, thank you for sharing a little bit about your family. That's a really good example. Um, can you think of like in your work, maybe a couple examples of specific pairings that you that you've seen like a notable, a notable culture develop around their family based on the specific pairing?
SPEAKER_00:So good. Well, yes, I've seen that like a type one and eight together, which is I know a pairing you've really noticed within your parents, um, but they have created a culture of being huge givers. Like we give generously, we give dutifully, we do the right thing. And then everyone under them knows we're fast paced, we move hard, we get the job done. And they're just moving and shaking in the world. They're high achievers, and they do blow up sometimes with anger, but they all repair pretty well and come back together for a lot of love and fun. And it doesn't mean that some of them don't have different personalities that grow up out of that system, but I'm just thinking of one of my favorite couples who has that system, and you know, there's a lot of arguing between because one and an eight do argue between themselves about who's right, but ultimately they find a commonality and their whole crew does of we love doing the right thing. It makes us feel good.
SPEAKER_01:You literally just described my parents in my childhood. It it's so hilarious. And if my parents were listening to this episode, they would agree. So I'm I uh they they would laugh and say, Yeah, that sounds like us.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's so cool. I'm so glad it fits for what you experienced growing up, too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I'll actually share a little story um about my family, and then I I want to hear about a couple more pairings that you want to talk about. But um, okay, so going right along with the first thing you said is that the 1-8 pairing can be really big givers. Um both my parents are incredibly hardworking and care so much about doing the right thing. And my parents did decide to adopt. Um, my parents adopted three siblings um when I was about 12. Um, and I mean, right off the bat, their their motivation for adoption was it was about God's call, it was about doing the right thing, it was about helping um give the the specific set of siblings a better life. Um, so very um giving motivation. Um, I have one sister, she's my youngest sister, she's adopted, and and she was about seven years old when when she was adopted. Um she's an Ennegram too. And an interesting thing that happened um through the process of her joining our family is we've we've talked about this in recent years as adults, looking back, is is she had a lot of times where she felt lonely because there wasn't a lot of space for her to express herself emotionally. And in our family culture, there just was not a lot of emotional expression. And so it was, I think, hard for all of us to figure out how like how to interact with this girl who is like part of our family now, but she is emotional and feely and she cries. Like, why we don't know what crying is. Um and we have had a lot of like amazing conversations now as adults, even with my family, about we understand each other all so much better now because of the Enneagram. Um, but my parents would always say, like, they wish they had the Enneagram when their kids were young to be able to understand the differences between everybody.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's beautiful that they've embraced it later in life. Wow. Oh my goodness. Well, that's a beautiful example. And I think that when we see couples that have a very diverse spectrum, like a two and a five together, we start to see a lot of the merging of the various types across years, which we really look at as a healing component to the marriage and an immersion component because it takes hard work, like you alluded to, when a family system has work like that to do. That's deeper. And for those who might not remember, a two being such an overt giver and a five really feeling the need to come within and to store energy and resources. It is such an opposites attract but common pairing. And over years, you see a family culture developing of people who are really good at giving, but also really good at resting. And I've loved watching multiple two, five pairings, spend a ton of time at home reading, watching TV, researching even our twos who normally might be a little more thinking inhibited, really digging into brain work with the approval and desire of their partner. And then a lot of type fives who would normally be really reserved, their twos are building up their competency and saying, You're awesome. Their twos are so good at finding and nurturing gifts in their spouses. And so they really start to know themselves better and they rise up in confidence, but they often still give from an introverted space. And there's this silent agreement that if the two wants a lot of attention, they'll do it on the five's terms, but the five knows the two needs the attention and they want to give it, but they have to give it from their own terms. And so people coming from that system learn about okay, I know that there's somebody here who wants the control, usually both, but especially the five. And they will probably call the shots at the end of the day simply because they might feel like they might die if they give too much. Um, and the two will probably lean in a bit towards that, but also get their way by saying, like, here, I need to be a giver, here's how I want to do it, and then letting the five help them to come up with a structured way to do it. So nobody has to sacrifice who they are, but there are types where you see one take the leadlittle bit more than the other. And then the family culture understands that. Okay, this person's kind of the boss. This person can get us really going on our activities. And that's how I see the two and the five together in their culture.
SPEAKER_01:That's a great example. Yeah, I know two and five can be more common than I thought once I started working with you, and you tell me about how common it is, and definitely opposites attract there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it really is. And it's such a romantic pairing because the five pulls away, but then they come back out. They're both relationalist types. They both love that little cat and mouse game. Um, and the five makes the two wait, but then they give really good love. So it's interesting. And of course, when people aren't healthy, they don't do that very well. Another pairing type that I love is the three nine because they really understand their mutual desires for materials. They love to be cozy together, they love to get decked out in comfort and in style and in witticism. They get it that the other person is going to be really good with the cultural mores, and they also want to be good with what's happening in the world, and they stay attuned to whatever's going on uh with style and culture. But they're also both hard workers. And what you can see from the family dynamic is that there's a lot of doing, but sometimes the order of doing things can get lost with both of them. So the family can end up having a lot of chaos. Like threes are working hard doing the goals for work, and then the nines are feeling everybody thoughtfully out and what the needs are for each person's material needs. But sometimes there's nobody saying, like, really, let's prioritize us as a couple. Let's see what the most important things we need to do are today, and let's do them. That's one way they can get lost as a culture. And then the other way they can get a little lost is because everybody likes so much materialism, they can need more money than most pairings. And because of that, the three can get working so hard that they start losing family time together. And neither one being really good with overt emotions, they can lose each other because they can say the three is always working, the nine doesn't know what to do and is sort of frozen or numbed out, and they're both just getting a lot of material things, but there's not a lot of love and there's not a lot of communication. So, this is a pairing that you often see needing therapy so they can talk about their heart issues, so they can figure out how to prioritize life. And once they do that, they're fine.
SPEAKER_01:I have heard about the three-nine pairing that the they can be a really good project couple because when the nine can get into their arrow space to three and be really hardworking, like you just mentioned, they can get a lot done and do big projects together, which I I wouldn't normally like associate with a nine, like getting big projects done, but it's that combo of pairing the nine with the three, and then they have this like whole new alchemy together.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that you're right. Thank you for bringing that up because they can even run a business beautifully together if they start prioritizing right. There's so much energy between the two. Threes and nines have a lot of great energy. So you heard me say sometimes they're in disarray, but when they do pull it together and really wake up to emotions and to even their body as a nine, it's a it's a neat couple to watch get raised up in the Enneagram.
SPEAKER_01:Yay. Uh, do you want to do another one?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, sure. I'll do Wes and I. We're one seven. And so when I am in my busy and he's in his busy, we can run really fast and hard, but neither of us has that emotional space easily accessible. So what we have to do is one of us has to say, I'm gonna go first, I'm gonna be a little softer, I'm gonna be a little more vulnerable and say what I actually need emotionally. And I just did that with my husband the other day, and it was so valuable. He goes, I needed to hear that so bad. Thank you so much. And it really was not easy for me to do because again, I had learned growing up that emotions weren't that safe and you would get taken advantage of if you were vulnerable. And of course, I didn't say this, but some people might know I have a type 8 father. So that was part of his MO was you know, if you give your emotions, you could be taken advantage of. So you have to have a healthy distrust. And so he tried to put that onto my marriage, which made me even less want to really give my husband my heart. But when I do and when I did, it's such a gift to my husband, and then he can give back to me. Now, my husband culture, a lot of ones are one-wing twos, and that's how he is. So he's a little closer to those soft emotions sometimes. But again, the family culture we bring is a lot of hard work and fast movement, a lot of joy, and we both love both of those things. But when it comes to slowing down and really hearing our kids' hearts, sometimes we can miss that if we're moving too quickly. So I often repair that by going back for what I missed and just really trying to attune. And I'll even have dreams like last night I had a dream about one of my daughters that I had tried to do an emotional repair with her on the way home from church. I I felt bad for something. And I said, Oh, I wonder if that made you feel bad. I saw that happen to you. And she's like, Oh, that was it was okay. And then I woke up this morning thinking, I shouldn't have addressed that so briefly in the car in a public space. So I asked her to go for a walk with me this morning. And I said, you know, I was just thinking about you. That must have been tough yesterday at church. Is there anything else you wanted to tell me about it? And she thanked me for letting me, you know, take some more time with her. And that's something that if you're in a one-seven pairing or any fast-moving pairing, you need to know, like your sister that you guys learned this about. Like sometimes you have to go back for those emotions, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, definitely. And a hard part of that can be that it can feel like it's slowing down. Like I'm slowing down and I have to like stop what I'm doing to go. And actually, I'm talking like kind of on behalf of what my family culture was. Like, oh, I have to stop what I'm doing and go tend to somebody's emotions, and then I can't like keep moving forward. But uh, but we I mean, we know that it's so important for um connections with each other to stay connected emotionally, but it's just not naturally easy for all of us.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yes. So helping with therapists doing this with us, which Wes and I have done over the years, um, you know, many different people are needed to help when you have such a big blind spot. So it's okay to get help because sometimes we just don't know how to do it ourselves. We never learned. Or, like me, it didn't feel safe when I learned. And I'm sure my husband felt the same way because he just, we just didn't have healthy examples of doing it right. We had people either taking advantage of or taking advantage of. But in our case, and I'm sure every listener here, we want to know how do I share share my emotions safely and share your emotions safely instead of bottling them up.
SPEAKER_01:And Krista, none of your kids are a one or a seven, but do you see that they have like some one and seven tendencies?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And what's interesting is my son thinks he's a seven now. He used to think he was a six, but he's come to realize that he's uh this sounds funny, but probably just a healthier version of seven than me. And that's, you know, I think that I'm learning that I think that when we grew up, we had a little tougher of a time in some ways as Gen X, or a late millennial or early millennial rather. And I think my son has had a little more, you know, a therapist mother doing her work all these years. So he doesn't have to run quite as hard as I did as a seven. And now I'm healthy, but I'm still coming from a place of a lot more trauma. And so we didn't know he was a seven, but he's really saying, at least as a 13-year-old, that's my type. And I'm a lot like you, mom. It's just I'm not gonna go so hard into my vices as you have. I'm not gonna run so hard, but I love activity, I love joy. That's my gift to share with the world. And then I also get too frantic. He's a bit of a Kramer like in Seinfeld, where he's just bumbling all over the place. So, and he's a comedian in his um acting group and he's really kind and encouraging to others. So he has those traits. And then my type four and nine daughters, they definitely have some one features. So even though they don't identify as a one, they both are extremely perfectionistic about their grades, and my nine is extremely justice-oriented about her grades with their professors. So her professors hear from her on a weekly basis if she's not getting a straight high A. And my type four is so tenacious that she typically gets a straight high A, anyways, because she, as many know, she's a four who goes into her one a lot. So they may be more withdrawing than us, all three of them, a little more maybe healthy than we grew up for sure, but they definitely have the traits. And then lastly, about that, I would say both my daughters, when we did their tri-type, they also had a seven in their tri-type. So they really understand Enneagram language and they'll say, I was in my seven when I made this decision, or I need a little more seven right now. So they definitely, like your family, love using the Enneagram. It is such a helpful way for them to navigate what space they need to accomplish a task, even if it's annoying at times with their parents. They also try to use the good that we bring them.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for sharing more about your family. I it always makes it, I love making it personal and like hearing about people's real lives, right? You're the expert. But you have a real life and a real family too.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. I love the personal questions. It really gets me into my heart space because there's nothing I want more than my people to feel safe and good. So I love the questions. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:So here's uh something that I think about with my husband and I. Um, so I said before he is a three. I'm a one. I already discussed some about my family being, I would say my my family, if I had to pick one number, was more of an eight-ish culture, but then there was some of a lot of the one also. Um and my husband, he comes from a family that has a lot of three and six, I would say. So there's a lot of um focus on safety and security and um risk assessing so that we can avoid danger. And then also accomplishing, and they're very good at like celebrating each other's accomplishments, um, which has been really sweet to like marry into a family that is just like so supportive about everything. So I I really love that about them. Um and it's there's something um interesting about in my family, uh, there's eight of us, six kids, and my parents. There's no sixes in my family, not a single one. We truly didn't have a person who was like bringing that focus on on safety. And so I find with Braden and I that we have these moments where he's like, Oh, but we need to bring up this. Did you think about this? Because we need to make sure that this is safe. And I'm like, oh, like I did not think about that at all. Like I had no idea. Yeah, there's there's something kind of fun at looking at, you know, when two people get married and then can look at both of their cultures. A lot of the blind spots that we can can find in our relationships are because maybe there was one Ennegram type really present for one person that wasn't for another person. So it's it just like goes into all these layers, like it's more layers than just what's my type, and that's the end of it.
SPEAKER_00:That is said so well. And you really alluded to centers of intelligence there, which I love. You said, you know, we were really a right and wrong family, and it wasn't really about safety. And for me growing up, it was about safety and heart. But I remember bringing it to a husband who had so much a right and wrong culture, and he was like, Safety kind of makes sense, but heart, like, what are you talking about? Especially because I was in a more victim stance like some of my family. And so he's like, absolutely not gonna handle your victim mentality. So I only tried that the first year of marriage and it didn't really work well. But then we both, as you know, we lost a bit of our heart because we realized, oh, well, we work really well thinking and doing together. But then we had to come back more slowly. I think every listener is probably now going, okay, are we a, you know, are we more about right and wrong? Are we more about safety? Are we more about heart? And I think you and I know we need all of those elements, or our marriages are not gonna work very well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we need all we need to find balance somehow. Um, this reminds me of there's this exercise that I like where you you kind of you have to take like a physical Ennegram symbol and then you write out the types of everybody like in your family. People do this a lot with with work teams to see where the imbalances are in their work team. So I worked for a Chick-fil-A a few years ago, and with our leadership, we mapped everybody out on the Ennegram symbol. And then when you look at everybody written down, you can see, oh, we're really heavy on the heart types. And then the second is the body types, and then we really don't have a lot of thinking types on the team. So, like, how does that affect us as a work team? Well, my work team was very focused on the customer service aspect and making sure that we took care of our guests and making sure that um our image stayed looking good. It was like pretty image conscious, also. Um, but then you know, sometimes it was lacking on the risk assessment or you know, thinking through logical decisions. And I can see that that exercise can be really helpful for families also to map out where you are in the three centers, um, and then kind of see like where's the imbalance? Do we only have one head type person in our family? Then, oh my gosh, does that person like feel lonely or isolated? Or how can we um like value them and what they bring, even though it doesn't always mesh with the body and the heart types?
SPEAKER_00:That's so well said. I think that's a great exercise for everybody to do because it's really important you know what are our blind spots as a family, as a couple, as a bigger extended family, as we let other people enter our family. What are they gonna feel from us culturally? And this goes, like you said, with organizations, churches too. That's so interesting about your work. And I know our sole heart type in our family has mourned that a few times to say there's no other heart types in this family. And that can be a little lonely sometimes. And so she does consider me as an honorary four because my tribe type is seven, four, nine. But I will still have differences because it's not my first type. And so she tries to make herself feel better to say, well, at least mom can go there as deep as I want, but it has to be an intentional move. One of us has to say it. That's why I was happy for my dream and waking up this morning and realize I need to go there. But unless you have a part of you that would do what I did, it's really gonna have to even be something you write down every day or every week. Here, can I check in with my thinking this week? Can I check in with my heart? Can I check in with my rights and wrongs? Because if it's not happening for you, you might very much be missing a really important person in your family who just needs some love.
SPEAKER_01:That's a really good idea. Yeah, really good idea for families to do. Um, because you know, we know that if one person is feeling uh maybe left out or lonely, that that's not something that every number is gonna voice or or express.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. So true. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:Um, is it okay to embrace a family culture that leans heavily on one Enneagram type? Or should we really be trying to always find balance? What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think that it's okay to say this is who we are and these are our gifts, but to find people who have other gifts and work with them as a team, or integrate those gifts. And I think it really is an either-or. Some people are like, this is who I am, and I'm really good at knowing that and staying in my lane and just also respecting you. But the minute we come into judgment with that, that method no longer works and a better balance uh method must be used where we try to integrate balance more into ourselves. But if we can be able to say, Oh my goodness, like we are all supporting each other's gifts. We know when I think of the incredible family in the Marvel universe, like this is your turn, this is your turn. And it's so helpful for everyone to know they have a gift and what it is and when it's their part. But I think that's so idealistic. And the more reality checks we have as a family, um, the more we're going to need some softening and some understanding. Like, I have to do my own work because my partner or my family member might not be doing their work right now. Maybe they just can't for whatever reason. And I have to lean into their gift a little more. And I also have to try to be humble that I don't have all the answers. So I think it's great to have high hopes that we would all balance, but a lot of the time people just aren't as self-aware in your family. So you have to spend a little more time, you as the listener, you and me, knowing and doing this work, to be the one to set the boundaries and to make the concessions. Um, because we just know this person is in a high stress space and they're not going to be able to do it. So I what can I do? And I've learned that through doing my own therapy is you cannot depend on another person and put your power in them to do the changing. You have to do the work you can do.
SPEAKER_01:That's really good. And yeah, that's really good coming from a type who tends to be more judgmental than the other types. Like we need we need that reminder that we can't force other people to change. But we can we can do our own work and that um that affects a lot of change around us. I like what you said about that it's it's okay to embrace our gifts. Like if we have a heavy, you know, heavy one ennie gram type in our in our family, it's okay to say like this is what um this is our skills, this is our gifts, and like this is how God has wired us, and we can celebrate um the good things about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, you can still soften toward your family and say, like, oh yeah, I would never mean to hurt you. This is me coming from a place of love, and I'm so sorry if you didn't feel that. But you know, some people will say, Well, that's not a real apology, but I think it's a real apology. And sometimes you just as a one, I'm sure you feel this, or an eight. I talked to an eight the other day. Sometimes they're not sorry because they really have a high instinct for doing what was right. And if somebody says you need to say sorry, they're like, I can apologize for doing what I thought was right, but what I can say is I'm sorry if I missed you. I'm sorry if I didn't come across as loving. Let me slow down and consider your opinion too.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and there's there's something about authenticity there too, specifically with AIDS, where they they want to be authentic about what what how they communicate with people. Krista, can we do one or two more pairings, like a couple of pairings that you really like that you could just kind of briefly give us a synopsis of?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, sure. I love that. Well, I love to work with a one and nine pairing because they're both justice fighters. It's a very common pairing because there's a lot of nines in the world, and I think there's probably a lot of ones too. But that pairing is really going to sometimes get gridlocked for both of them thinking that their way is right. And so when they do so, they can create uh a really deep scar tissue together in their marriage, where it's like, well, I wanted this, and because you didn't do this, I'm gonna stubbornly withhold this. And they can do that about so many things that they miss each other in huge ways. They might altogether leave out the self-preserving instinct to save money, or it might be they cut off sex, it might be that they cut off doing anything socially together and wind up as parts of different churches. The amount of stubbornness is unreal. And so, in this pairing, what I really have learned is not only can it affect them, but then their kids can feel like their parents' judgmental alliance outside of everything else, they probably still do agree on a lot of their values. And then the kids can feel really unheard because their parents are both these big justice fighters who know the absolute on right and wrong. And then their kids are like, you didn't understand any of us. And I've had huge groups of kids say that to parents who are one and nine. Um, now the work I've seen ones and nines do together is also beautiful, but it involves a lot of taking deep breaths, taking pauses, and softening because it's hard to come away from your own opinion, especially if you really believe you're right. But when you really take time to be considerate and to examine your own stress and to do your own body work, oh my goodness, it's so much easier. But I've seen people try to bypass all that and then they land into, like I said, a stalemate or a divorce situation where no one heard from each other. So that's a really common pairing. You can do the work, it's just gonna take the deep breaths and the body work and um some softening. Um any comments on that one before I move on?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think the body work is awesome because nine and one are both in the body triad. And that's another pairing where you have two numbers both in the same triad. Okay, then we need to pay extra attention to the head and the heart because that doesn't come naturally. But yeah, I love I love the idea of the one-nine couple because what I mean, ones can be hard because ones can be really specific about their way and how they want things done, and nines can just be so like understanding and and compassionate. So I really like that pairing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, me too. It's beautiful. And I would say that another pairing that's really fun to work with is the four and eight, because you have this archetypal, really feminine four, and I'm gonna add to that, but then an archetypally very masculine eight. And so there's a lot of tension in romance at first, especially, but usually they can keep that going for a long time. But what people don't always remember is they're both very passionate types, and the four has power as well. We never said that having a feminine quality would make somebody weak. It's that they have a different way of achieving power, and it's gonna come through withholding, it's gonna come through sometimes not being as receptive as we would always think females would be or feminine people would be. And so there's a sense of I hold power. It almost reminds me of Billy Joel's song Always a Woman, where the woman is sort of cat-like and lying whenever she feels like it and changing her mood whenever she feels like it. And it could be the guy is the four, but either, and there could be more masculinity coming, but either way, you're gonna see a lot of mood shifts in this pairing. And so this pairing has to learn to work with mood regulation. Sometimes that may even involve them taking um a calm gummy from Target or doing an extra walk, especially for the four who may not be as bodily attuned, or the eight doing two workouts a day. But it will also involve them having vulnerable conversations, which can be terrifying for the eight, but absolutely necessary. And then the four has to make sure they don't just become the victim in those conversations, but that they also rise up into some of the logic the eight needs. So when they can do that, and I've seen a lot of couples do this really well, it is really beautiful and they have great chemistry and they're such givers in the world. They can really save the world with their pairing because they have deep heart, both of them. And the eight gets the four going and doing, and the four helps the eight to be more vulnerable and safe. But it's it's fire and ice in that way that when it's really hard, that eight can be fiery and that four can be very icy, and then the eight can be icy and the four fiery. So there's a lot of passion here.
SPEAKER_01:I love how you can just riff on any pairing and tell us about the combination. And you guys, if you haven't done this yet, you have to go to Krista's website and get the glow guide for your pairing. I will give you the information in the show notes.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. I love that. Thanks for letting me do that. It's such a joy to be able to share what I'm learning from others. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:It is time to wrap it up. I really appreciate your time, Krista. And there are lots of ways that people can connect with you. You have published a book called The Enneagram in Marriage. You have a very popular Instagram, you have a very popular podcast. Um, so I'll put all the info that people can find out more. And is there anything else that you want to tell people about how to connect with you or just final thoughts?
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh. Well, I have Elise and other coaches that are affiliates on my page as well. So if you have a particular number you'd like to be coached by because you know your family's culture and that they would understand you, head on over to our website, to the coaching page. And of course, my inner team that work with me locally have our pages too. But we also have that affiliates page with Elise and others who have beautiful coaching. I have been so honored to walk alongside them and their giftings as we all sharpen each other. And their information is all on my page as well for you to find a coach there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, off the top of my head, I'm just thinking we have a lot of great people in that group. We have a woman who has seven kids, so she has a lot of parenting experience. We has a have a woman who is um very passionate about helping midlife women find their next steps. Um, we have a lot of really uh talented people that you can work with.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh, yes. I love that you just named that. So blessed.
SPEAKER_01:I again just really appreciate your time and I appreciate like the time that you've taken to like write me extra emails with a word of encouragement and um the time that you take to check in on us personally when we're doing coaching. I just really look up to you and I'm glad that you did this with me.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. I am honored to do this with you, and I will sit with it because it is such a joy to be asked here. So thank you so much, Elise. Thanks for sharing your beautiful type one gifts in the world. I see them and I admire them so much.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks. And thanks everybody for listening to this conversation with Krista Harden.
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
Enneagram and Marriage
Christa Hardin, MA
Typology
Ian Morgan Cron
Around the Circle | An Enneagram Podcast
Jeff Cook and T.J. Wilson